Jennifer Van Syckle  0:00  
Thank you for joining us for this episode of talking health in the 406, where we're one community under the big sky. I'm your host, Jennifer Van Syckle, longtime health care worker turned health educator. And we're going to pick up right where we left off with Jacob Krissovich. And in this episode, we are going to ask some of those questions that maybe you've always wondered about.

How did you cope? Were you still able to, you know, with work or life in general? Were you just adapting as fast as you could? Or did you need like to take a couple minutes off and try and mentally just I or what were you doing with your mental health and life at that point? Yeah.

Jacob Krissovich  0:47  
Excellent question, I. First, I was so busy with adapting and trying to keep my head above water with work and being a dad, because you know, and a husband, like, your life doesn't stop for you to adapt and learn. You either keep up and do your best or you wallow. And everybody handles, you know, a situation like that differently. For me, I was like, I need to keep my job first and foremost, to be able to help provide for my wife and kids, because I was like, I could go on disability. But when I looked at the payments I would have been receiving, it would have meant having to make sacrifices like potentially selling our house and things like that, I did not want to do that. In my mind, at that point with where I was in my mental health, I didn't want to do that to my wife and boys. Obviously, I know now being more healthy, that it wasn't me doing anything to anybody, it was just a part life. But with that, I use that as fuel. And I reached out to blind and low vision services. And so anyways, what they were able to do since I was a state employee, and their state agency was able to come get me a consultation, which was great. They came over to my workplace, they showed me the tools that I could use, they told my employer what I needed. And they gave me some tips and tricks. And then I again, thanks to what I went through as a kid, I had the perseverance to teach myself how to use these programs, you know, research it online, watch YouTube videos, fumbled through things, and I taught myself how to, you know, use my computer with a screen reader, a screen reader is software that wherever your cursor is on your screen, it tells you what it's saying. So you can use your mouse pointer to move around at first what you're learning. But then ultimately, you learn to progress to using just your keyboard because it's way faster, and you learn shortcut keys and all these things. And so I learned how to use that which I was fortunate and with my vision going. I had time, it wasn't a all light switch. So I was able to kind of use magnifiers and the screen reader at the same time, I learned all these things. And with keeping busy. I was distracted from my mental health and didn't realize I had a problem with anxiety and depression. Because I was so busy. And I guess at that point, I really didn't have problems, I was so busy and time to focus on it. And everybody was so great, they rallied around me, my supervisor, my family, my amazing wife, they all were so supportive. But then as the months go on, and you learn these things, and the dust settles, and it's just kind of more just part of life with everybody. That's when it sank in. That's when I realized, you know, oh, like, I can't drive. You know, we had to sell our house and move into town, we got another house. And it actually ended up being a really great move, were in an amazing neighborhood now and we have an even nicer house and nicer neighborhood with neighborhood kids and all these things and it'll be in a good thing. But we had to do that. So I could take the transit, the public transit to work. And that was hard I to deal with that. I these things where I'm like, Oh, that's right. I you know, how do I play sports with my kids? You know,

right, the classic dad toss the ball in the backyard how do ya suddenly do that?

Yes. Yeah. My wife has to mow the lawn. How do we do that? I was always the one like I would work on our cars because my dad was a mechanic for 20 years. Oh, we have to pay somebody to work on our car now. Because I don't there's certain things I could do. But there's some things I didn't feel comfortable because of the safety behind it. You know, if I goofed up, you know, it's the high risk. Right, right. And so I started to go into that mourning phase of oh my gosh, like, there's things I can't do. And then I started to wallow in the things I couldn't do. Um, and then went through anger and panic attacks, legitimate panic attacks where, you know, couldn't breathe. Just like, felt like, I just couldn't get rid of like I just, and, you know, just the suicidal ideation and all that. And those, just those those thoughts where people think, you know, like irrationally mind you, you think in that dark moment that people would be better off without you that you're a burden, you know, right. Your family doesn't feel this way. And in no way did my family give me any feeling of that they were nothing but supportive. But I wasn't rational. I was, I was like, Well, of course, they're not going to tell you that, you know, they're not horrible people, but I am burden and all these things. And thankfully, with encouragement from my wife, I finally get my amazing, very patient, wife reached out and got counseling. And because I wasn't able to do it on my own, I mean, good for those who can. But I recognized myself that with everything I went through, that I couldn't, and that there was nothing wrong with that. If you break your leg, you're not going to be like, Yeah, I'll tough it out, you know, mental health the same way. You sometimes you need help. And they needed help. And I went and saw a counselor, and I'm, honestly stronger mentally than I ever was. I'm more willing to advocate for myself, which is another thing I had to learn to do is, you know, some people. Some, my employer is always willing to help, but some people aren't always willing. So you have to learn with advocate. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah. It's not natural to want to. It's not comfortable, I guess, to do those things. No, no.

Jennifer Van Syckle  7:05  
And, you know, as you tell your story, there's a couple of things I think of, I think, thank goodness, you were worked for a company well the State of Montana, yes, that was willing to support you, you know, and thank goodness, you were willing to move into a bigger urban area that had public transit, so much Montana, doesn't. And so, you know, it just makes me wonder if you were living in somewhere rural Montana, I won't even name any towns, small town. I mean, this huge lifestyle change would have even been bigger, you know, you would have maybe had to move into billings, because that was the nearest metropolitan area that had a bus that could get you to the grocery store, or you would have liked had to lean so heavily on families, what do do you know, what's out there? For people like that, that might have be blind or have low vision that are are so remotely rural do?

Jacob Krissovich  7:55  
I would say having advice, my advice to your question would be for those individuals in very rural areas is one of few things. First off, be real with yourself and your feelings. If this is new to you, it's a trauma, it's very much like losing your spouse or something, because it's a very big part of you, you're losing. And if you don't think so I highly encourage you to look deeper, because you may be in a form of denial, because it's hard, it doesn't mean you're not tough to recognize that it's hard. It's just simply hard. It's not something that a lot of people have to go through. In fact, only 2.4% of Americans are legally blind, that's really small. And the vast majority of those are in the older category, in our older I mean, like 70 Plus, and that you know, so it's just you're in a small group. So if you're in a rural place, recognize that and be honest with family, don't feel like you have to go through it alone, because your family is there for you. And if, if you're not being honest with family, you actually make it harder on your family. I honestly made it much harder on my wife in a very almost selfish way, by not being honest with her, tried to put on a strong front and all these things and wasn't honest with her when she kowing me knew that I was struggling, but I lied. And that's not fair to her. She can't help if I'm lying. So be honest with your family members, and then get set up with blind and low vision services as soon as you can. The other thing is be there's two organizations for the Blind in the state ones, the National Federation of the Blind, and then the other ones Montana Association for the Blind. Reach out to one of them because Blind and Low Vision Services is great for the vocational aspect of it money teaching you how to work and do your normal activities of life. But it's Nice to know you're not alone. So if you reach out to one of those organizations, you get to meet individuals and you realize that, you know, it's not over, you just have to learn to adapt what your life looks like. And that's a huge component of it too. And they're also going to be a great resource for more localized resources, like, does your town have some form of paratransit, which is a public transportation made for people with disabilities, sometimes, a lot of times it's destination to destination within city limits. So you don't have to go to a bus stop in some of the smaller towns do have things you can also put you within put you in touch with organizations in your town where, you know, they may be able to work out something where they don't do it normally. But they would work out somebody to help volunteer to give you rides and things like that. So

Jennifer Van Syckle  10:51  
And those, or do they have chapters around the state? They do?

Jacob Krissovich  10:55  
Yeah, they have. They're largely in the bigger cities, the chapters, but but they have chapters in some of the smaller cities, where they were if you know, other individuals, they'll put you or they have other individuals in that area that have like an at largest chapter, which will cover smaller towns that aren't near a new, a big city. And with that, you'll be more likely to come in contact with like, say, you're in the northeastern part of Montana, they'll put you in touch with people through that large chapter that are in the northeastern part, like due to the fact that everything's so spaced out, they may not have a centralized meeting place, but they do monthly phone calls, where you can get on there and talk to people and make relationships and they can put you in touch with people

Jennifer Van Syckle  11:41  
perfect. And we can put those contact information on our website as well, the web, web addresses and it seems to that's, it's a new chapter in life, definitely. And everybody needs needs help. And it's amazing with Montana, you know, our tagline in the podcasts, we are one community under the Big Sky, it's amazing how if you reach out to somebody, somebody knows somebody that can help. And even you know, I'm sitting here thinking about even like the various disability services, there might be another service or a home service that can help you get your groceries to your house, you know, and there's always people willing to help and reach out to you know, that's the beauty of our state.

Jacob Krissovich  12:20  
I was just learning about things like, you know, I mean, I was aware of Guide Dogs, but I didn't know a lot about them. And the whole process was daunting. And through one of those associations, I made a connection with someone who had a guide dog and answered all my questions and actually came in met with me in Helena, even though he lived in Great Falls and had to get a ride, you know, because he was blind. We talked about guide dogs and without his encouragement, I wouldn't have gotten Fife and Fife, my guide dog FI F E is an absolute game changer. For me, I go backpacking again, I not just like, you know, easy hikes, I go on some really messed up trails, in like the Tobacco Roots and in the Belt Mountains and stuff, and they're like 10 mile long hikes and stuff, or you know, backpacking trips and stuff. So it's great, you know, you also learn about apps that you can use that will help you GPS apps that are designed for blind or visually impaired or apps that'll read things for you, or like you said, services that will deliver groceries. You know, Instacart is a big one. We use that to lighten the load on on my spouse, so she doesn't have to always do all the grocery shopping, because I can help with that. And most people's relationships, especially people who have kids, you know, both spouses share that load, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great resource to tap into. That's a great tagline I like that

Jennifer Van Syckle  13:56  
And then I'm curious. For my own curiosity, you know, when you do have to go to the grocery store, or when you do walk into a bathroom, finding the toilet or in the grocery store, or finding your maybe on a road trip, or I don't know, you know, you need a bottle of water, you need a box of pasta. What do you do?

Jacob Krissovich  14:19  
That' a really good question. And honestly, the funny thing is, is that was also part of my journey with my mental health was at first, when you're in the very beginning phases, you're not having to worry about these things, because people are like, you know, oh, we'll help with this, that and the other, but at some point, life has to go

Jennifer Van Syckle  14:35  
on and that fades. Yeah. And

Jacob Krissovich  14:39  
people are still willing to help. But at some point, you have to learn how to do some of these things. And that's when it set in for me it's like, how do I, how do I even do these things? And that's where blind and low vision services come in on Montana Association for the Blind. On their website, you'll see that they offer a summer program where they will it's free and, they teach you how to do things like go shopping and cooking and things for me and those things for me, I wasn't able to attend it. So I kind of had to fumble through and figure it out. But, um, or talk to people in association, either Association and FBA or MA B, and they can give you some tips or tips or watch YouTube videos, which is amazing. In regards to shopping, in smaller stores, like if you have like an Helena, we have Vans Thriftway, something like that, where if you have somebody who

Jennifer Van Syckle  15:29  
a small local, locally owned, yeah,

Jacob Krissovich  15:32  
those ones you can, you know, kind of make your way through, once you kind of learn the layout, or if you're in my situation where you were sighted. And Van's doesn't move things, like probably in decades, you know where they are. And so you go to some other stores, and, you know, it was there, but now it's three aisles over oh man yes. And so, if it's a smaller store, like Van's, I can go in there and I know where to go. And it is harder with a white cane, but it's doable. That's kind of you need to you practice and you learn you there's this thing that people aren't really aware of, that your brain learns is the when you're they call it orientation mobility, learning your white cane, which is the kind that you see blind or visually impaired with, and they like, they'll use it to tap, or to glide on the floor. And they'll use it for one noticing if there's something in front of them. But two, you can hear the sound and how it reverberates off of things and know. But along those lines, there's a thing called time and distance traveled. And you kind of like a lot of people think of blind people count their steps. And so I do know some that do. But you learn roughly in your brain on a subconscious level, it takes me this long to get to the elevator if you're walking straight or across your living room. And so with that in stores, you kind of just build a map in your mind of okay, I want to get chips, it's, you know, this far over and it's the left. And Fife makes it even easier because as I'm getting close to the aisle, I just tell him, like you kind of noticed maybe when we were walking, I'm coming over here, I can tell him preemptively I can give him a hand signal and just keep telling him left and he'll take the next left one is available. Okay, so I can do that. And then once I get into the aisle, it's on me. And what I have to do is, there's an app that's free on your phone that's made by Microsoft, that's called um Seeing A I literally saw the word seeing and then the letter A and then letter I. And it's a free app. And there's two nice features on it. One, there's a text reader where you open up the app and you hold your phone up to something and I'll tell you what the text says on it. There's also a barcode reader, which when you make some noises, you're like rotating the can until you get up to the barcode. And it makes a little happy, like you want the game of finding the barcode.

Jennifer Van Syckle  18:04  
We all go through that checkout. We know that game. Yeah.

Jacob Krissovich  18:08  
When you scan that, it'll tell you one what it is, but then also the nutritional facts and stuff like that. And so if it's a very short list of things, I can go about it that way. Or if it's a bigger store, or there's more to it, you can go to the customer service desk, it doesn't matter the store. They all have this. And if you live in a small enough town, then Congrats, you know the person and they're gonna help you anyway,

Jennifer Van Syckle  18:34  
right? They probably see you coming anyway. Yeah.

Jacob Krissovich  18:39  
But you can go to the front desk and ask, do you have somebody who could help me. And what they'll do is they'll walk around with you and help you get the items perfect, which is even nicer. If it's a long long, like shopping list. If it's just you need bread and chips like or bread and milk, you can learn those two spots and just go get those things but get to go to Albertsons. That's a bigger ordeal. So that's what I do with that. Um bathrooms. That was a fun one to learn. Honestly, it's funny, because your bathrooms are your friend. Because, again, you learn to go off audio cues, so toilets, flushing sinks running, and when you come in, you just kind of pay attention to those things. And as a guy just kind of aim for the stalls. It's a safe bet. I had an embarrassing moment where I tried to go use a urinal and it was occupied. Oh man. He was a good sport about it. But you know, after that, I was like, I'm just gonna go stalls because the doors shut or it's open, but you just you learn those cues. A lot of the times and a lot of bathrooms. Not always but a lot of times. They're just kind of a standardized layout. You have to learn where the things are, but usually the things are opposite from The bathroom, like the stalls and such. So, if it's not busy, then, you know, I just use my white cane at that point. Because Fife is amazing. But I have to tell him where to go. And if I don't know where to go, he doesn't have a built in GPS, like some people think he, he's gonna be confused. You know, if I'm confused, he's confused. And unless it's somewhere he's familiar, like, if it's somewhere we've gone before, and I get confused, he could get me to where I need to go. But I use my white cane in that situation, and you just kind of have to explore. If there's nobody in there. Also, the only thing I've just learned, and this was hard for me at first, ask, you know, if there's somebody in there, just ask, Hey, I'm blind and visually impaired, where's X? Where's Y, or Z? And people are more than willing to help. It doesn't matter where I mean, Montana, people are, like tripping over themselves to help you. They're just, you know, but in even in other states, you know, it's people are really willing to help. I've only ran into a couple instances where somebody was rude.

Jennifer Van Syckle  21:07  
Yeah, yeah. Well, and there's so much in life that, you know, you don't think of we that have sight? Like, if you're someplace that takes cash only? American cash is not like other countries where the small one is this? And the big one is this, you know, and you're sitting there, you're probably thinking, God, I hope I'm giving you a five instead of that 50 in my wallet, you know, or something like that. Yeah, so much that we just can't even start to wrap our minds around. You know, I guess one question I have too, is so you know, the public health world is starting to say, okay, don't call people with diabetes, diabetics, call them people with diabetes. So do you beat prefer people say, you know, visually impaired, blind, low sighted, what, what is your personal? What? What should the world what terms should the world be using? Doe it matter?

Jacob Krissovich  22:02  
That's a good question. And so and you'll find people have preferences, if you want to go into it with a safe bet, in terms of like, the most appropriate current language to use. It's either blind, or, you know, if you know, the person's actually blind, like totally blind can't see anything, um, or the other term would be visually impaired. It used to be low vision. That's still, like, accepted. It's not like offensive or anything like that. It's not like someone's going to clutch their pearls. And oh, my gosh, who called me low vision. It's just not the most up to date, the most up to date is visually impaired. And, I mean, obviously, it's still blind and low vision services. So it's not like offensive. It's just so a lot of people prefer visually impaired. Legally blind still used. I think people just like visually impaired because this just, I don't legally blind is so

Jennifer Van Syckle  23:00  
blind. Yeah, it almost feels more like a label or something.

Jacob Krissovich  23:03  
Yeah, it does. And the biggest thing is in the blind or visually impaired community, in general, the approach I personally, I don't care is the people first language of you know, people who are visually impaired, right, right. People who are blind person, I'm fine with whatever. I, I go, I say I'm blind. Because I can't see anything. And to me, blind is not like a dirty word or an offensive word. It is.

Jennifer Van Syckle  23:35  
Yeah. Well, and I think like my fourth grader, if he was the one in the bathroom, and you said, I'm visually impaired, he'd be sitting there thinking impaired, yeah, and then putting that together. Whereas if you just walked in and said, I'm blind, can you shut point me to the toilets or helped me? Do I need to go right or left right now? Yes, I could see where he'd get it. You know, just the vocabulary just Yeah. Well, with that, and,

Jacob Krissovich  23:58  
and there there are some people who aren't completely blind who will say I'm blind in situations like that, because it's easier. Yeah. And when I say on low vision, or visually impaired people will kind of struggle with while Do you need my elbow? Like what do you sidebar? Um, since I have a captive audience, we love sidebars Oh, if somebody who's blind asked you for assistance, offer them your arm. Or ask them how would you prefer I help you? Either one's totally acceptable, like, how do you want me to help you or do you want to take my arm? Don't grab them and start guiding them. It's really or if they use a white cane don't ever grab the white cane. It's instant. It's instant anxiety for that person. Even when somebody who's doing really well with his mental health. It's, you lose your control and as a blind individual. See, that shows you in person first is, it's a matter of preference. Um, as a, as a blind individual I, once somewhat your orientation is your everything, you know, right now I know the doors behind me. But if you grabbed me and you know started to steer me, I can lose where I'm where I'm facing. And I don't know how to backtrack to where I was. Whereas if I'm holiding onto your elbow, I'm following you like I would my guide dog. And I'm able to keep track of where I'm facing, it's a smoother transaction, I feel with your body language, when you're holding on somebody's elbow, you convey a lot, you don't realize it, but you know, you're coming up to the door, you start to turn sideways. Because you're aware that persons with you, you get a lot of feedback that way. Or you when you start to turn a corner, that person is usually a half step behind you holding on to your elbow so they can feel that you're starting to turn, or you're slowing down, things like that. Being guided from behind you, or somebody holding on to your elbow is really nerve racking. So, um, that was my sidebar.

Jennifer Van Syckle  26:16  
I love that. I love that sidebar. And that's Yeah, and that's great. And, you know, we've talked that, you know, in Montana, this isn't just young people, this is, you know, people who are older, so somebody who's had site for 60 years, and suddenly they're losing it, you know, and this is applicable to so many ages, so many demographics, so many people. So, yeah, all that is fabulous information because you just don't know it until you have somebody around you who is blind, or it's now part of your world in life. And so this great. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Talking Health in the 406, where we're one community under the Big Sky, and thanks to Jacob for sharing more of his story. In today's episode, you heard him mentioned blind and low vision services and other great services in the state of Montana. For more information on those and more, visit our website at TlkingHealthinthe406.mt.gov. And be sure to tune in to our next podcast where we'll introduce you to Fife Jacobs guide dog until then, take care

Transcribed by https://otter.ai